#125 Dan Stein: Career Truths Nobody Tells You
Dan Stein is a former recruiter at Google, SnapChat, and the VC firm A16Z. His wellness journey was featured in Men's Health and he launched an athletic apparel brand focused on mental health called Pax. Dan has also visited over 30 countries.
In this episode we discuss:
-The best career advice from a recruiter's perspective
-Why money is a renewable resource, advice from his dad that has helped him take more calculated risks
-How a cross-country move and a chance encounter with a waitress helped him land a job at Google
-Why "being seen" matters more than the perfect resume
-Why your manager can make or break your career
-The most important life lesson from visiting 31 countries
-What he means by 'finding what works for you' around health & fitness and more
Follow Dan on LinkedIn
Check out Pax’s website
Time-Stamped Show Notes
[00:00 - 08:30] Growing Up with Service-Minded Parents
Dan's mother: special needs teacher with 100% graduation rate
Dan's father: minister running home fellowships in Wisconsin
The "lead with love" philosophy that shaped Dan's worldview
Unconventional church experience and freedom of choice growing up
[08:30 - 15:45] Life Lessons from Dad
"Pay for good parking" - why convenience matters
"Money is a renewable resource" - eliminating financial anxiety
How faith informed the family's approach to money and provision
Growing up without extravagance but always having needs met
[15:45 - 20:30] Family Dynamics
Being second of four siblings
The only non-parent in the family
How being single allowed for more risk-taking and spontaneity
Career-driven vs. family-focused life paths
[20:30 - 35:15] The College Years: Battling Anorexia
First year at University of Minnesota: everything seemed fine
Sophomore year: when the eating disorder took over
0.9 GPA and academic probation
The obsession: 6-7 hours daily in the gym, waking at 2 AM for cardio
Skipping classes to work out, severe food restriction
Moving home and swallowing pride to attend community college
[35:15 - 47:20] The Darkest Period & Path to Recovery
Working odd jobs: window washing, waiting tables, painting
Hiding the disorder, eating alone in his room
The pasta ritual: sucking off marinara sauce, spitting out pasta
Rock bottom in Georgia: freezing in summer heat, lips and nails blue
Doctor's intervention: "I think you have an eating disorder"
Weighing 132 pounds at 5'10"
The 21 signs of starvation (he had 20 of 21)
One failed therapy session in 2005
Choosing self-education: fitness magazines, medical journals, nutrition books
4-5 years to full recovery in his mid-to-late twenties
[47:20 - 52:45] Men's Health Feature & Going Public
2016: Submitting to Ultimate Men's Health Contest
The "How I Got Healthy" video series
Video crew at Gold's Gym Venice at 6 AM
Over 1 million views - 3x more than any other video
Almost making the cover (Michael B. Jordan got it instead)
"Me and Michael B. Jordan are in the same issue"
The lesson: people are more compassionate than we expect
90% supportive comments vs. 10% negativity
[52:45 - 01:02:30] Breaking Into Sports: The Milwaukee to Oakland Journey
Dream of becoming a baseball GM
Reading John Schuerholz's book about the Atlanta Braves dynasty
Realizing the grind wasn't for him
Cold calling every MLB team's director of sales
Billy Fries responds: 9 months at $9/hour in a utility closet
Leading the sales board at Milwaukee Brewers
Job interviews: Charlotte Bobcats, Cleveland Cavaliers
Taking Oakland A's job over the phone, sight unseen
$24,000 salary (harsh Bay Area reality)
Cross-country drive with his dad
[01:02:30 - 01:08:45] The Raiders & Meeting Al Davis
Getting laid go by the A's the day after Opening Day (seasonality lesson)
Dad's advice: "Give it three weeks"
Landing Raiders job within two weeks
Meeting Al Davis coming out of the bathroom
The famous Lane Kiffin press conference
Al Davis passing away - phones ringing with fan stories
The outpouring of love for a maverick owner
Seeing John Madden at practice and around the facility
[01:08:45 - 01:15:30] The Google Break: A Serendipitous Connection
Meeting Allie, the waitress at a Minnesota Gophers bar in San Francisco
Getting her number, getting ghosted
3.5-4 years later: Facebook message about a Google sales job
"What do you know about Google?" "You guys got the search engine"
Seeing the campus paradise: people on lawns, free food, cafes
Job offer on the drive home from the interview
Starting on Google Offers (Google's Groupon competitor)
Team gets laid off after 6-7 months
Moving to AdWords new business sales
[01:15:30 - 01:22:15] Making the Pivot: Sales to Recruiting
4-5 years in sales, feeling the quota climb fatigue
Not growing professionally, losing motivation
Browsing internal job board: Project Aura (Google Glass evolution)
Lunch with Jose: treating it as conversation, not interview
Not trying to impress, just learning about recruiting
Job offer while at the Arnold Fitness Expo
12 years in recruiting since that pivot
[01:22:15 - 01:30:45] Job Market Reality Check
Agreeing the job market is incredibly challenging
The problem: too many bad recruiters as gatekeepers
AI bots reviewing resumes for keywords
From 200-300 applications per week to 1,200-1,500 in 2-3 days
The key: YOU HAVE TO BE SEEN
Tactical advice: Find people on LinkedIn in the department
Send connection requests, ask about their experience
End with: "Can you pass my resume to the hiring manager?"
The importance of preparation (referencing the Blackberry story)
Knowing your opponent: research the company, market, history
[01:30:45 - 01:35:20] The Preparation That Wins Jobs
Story of two final candidates at a multi-billion dollar company
Winner: came in with more market information than the CEO knew
Showed the future, not just past accomplishments
Preparation differentiates you from other qualified candidates
[01:35:20 - 01:40:30] Salary Negotiation in the Age of Transparency
Negotiation has changed: you're not negotiating with a person, but with the internet
Pay transparency laws have leveled the playing field
Advice #1: Be realistic with your ask
Don't ask for $300K when offered $200K
Advice #2: Only negotiate when ready to accept
Say: "I want this job. If you meet me at X, I'll sign today"
Makes it easier for them to get approval internally
[01:40:30 - 01:45:15] Greatest Google Memories
Professionally: the brilliance of people
Onboarding circle: Stanford, Stanford, Cal, Harvard, MIT... "University of Wisconsin Milwaukee"
Learning from the smartest people on the planet
Personally: first company holiday party at SF MoMA
Black tie event with penguins wandering around
Caviar, fine wines, champagne
Eating sushi in front of the fish tank
Coming from Raiders parties at the facility
[01:45:15 - 01:52:30] Working with Founders at Andreessen Horowitz
Job: partnering with seed-stage founders
Often just founder and co-founder, no other employees
Two key competencies of great founders:
Coachability - open to feedback and coaching
Hire experts and let them be experts - don't micromanage their expertise
The design example: if you're not a designer, don't critique design
Lean on your network for assessments
Critical insight: first hires determine success more than founders
Don't half-ass early hires or rush them
[01:52:30 - 02:00:45] Building PACS Activewear
15-16 years passionate about health and wellness post-recovery
Started researching 3 years ago with friend Aaron (met at gym)
Both used gym to manage mental health
Noticed gap: no activewear brand connecting mental and physical health
February 2023: got logo back (first milestone)
May 2024: official launch (almost 2 years)
Self-funded, no investors, no marketing team
Does all shipping from storage locker himself
"A success because of the people I've met, not financially"
Current focus: selling existing inventory and brand message
[02:00:45 - 02:05:30] The Hardest Part of Entrepreneurship
Biggest struggle: social media and branding
Doesn't enjoy being active on Instagram/TikTok
Yet that's where small niche brands must live
Lack of motivation for 30-45 minutes creating perfect reels
This year's commitment: more posting, more focus on brand message
Regret: not leaning into being the living embodiment of the brand
Uncomfortable talking into phone and posting videos
Working to overcome that discomfort
[02:05:30 - 02:15:45] Dan's Wellness Philosophy
Core principle: Find what works for YOU
No universal approach to health and wellness
It took years to figure out what works for his body
Patience is key - not overnight, not even 30 days
30-day challenges often do more harm than good
People quit when they don't see expected results
Progress is lots of little steps, not large leaps
Celebrate small wins
Don't let fitness restrict your ability to live and be social
[02:15:45 - 02:22:00] A Day in Dan's Life
Wakes at 5:45 AM (used to be 4:45-5:00 AM)
Lives 25 seconds from his gym
Morning routine: devotional, Bible, pre-workout
75-90 minutes lifting (focused, not chatting)
Plus cardio: 90 minutes to 2 hours total
Aims for 8 hours sleep (never sleeps through the night)
Wakes 2-4 times per night but falls back asleep quickly
Screens off 15 minutes before bed
Prays every night before sleep
Never had a TV in bedroom
[02:22:00 - 02:28:15] Nutrition & Eating Philosophy
Doesn't eat until midday (around noon or 1 PM)
First meal: egg whites, chicken breast, brown rice, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, berries
Dinner: rotating protein (steak, shrimp, fish), vegetables, healthy carbs
80/20 rule: 80% clean/healthy, 20% whatever
Loves cooking as a way to unwind after work
3,500-4,000 calories per day
Goes out with friends without restriction
Always orders dressing on the side
Dinner by 5:30-6:00 PM (won't do 9:30 PM dinners)
Evening snack before bed
[02:28:15 - 02:32:30] Supplements & Sleep Support
Started GABA 2-3 years ago for sleep
Able to fall back asleep quickly
Standard supplements: creatine, BCAAs, CLA (conjugated linoleic acid), glutamine
Recently: NAD+ peptide and TB-500 for muscle injuries
TB-500 helped forearm injury
NAD+ eliminated afternoon mental fog/wall
Unsure if creatine/pre-workout is placebo, but feels better when taking it
Coffee connoisseur, multiple cups daily (none after 1 PM)
[02:32:30 - 02:36:45] Typical Meals & Snacks
Baby carrots: could eat 3 bags a day
Cottage cheese (slow-digesting casein protein)
Lesser Evil popcorn (favorite before-bed snack)
Recently: protein waffles (nostalgic for childhood Eggos)
Tried Kodiak (tasted like cardboard)
Settled on Eggo protein waffles
Swore off protein powders years ago (wreaked havoc on stomach)
Tried all types: whey, casein, pea, soy, beef
Chose whole food proteins instead: chicken, fish, eggs, yogurt
[02:36:45 - 02:40:30] Intermittent Fasting Experience
Tried eating only 3 PM - 8 PM for 6 months
Eats 3,500-4,000 calories daily
Dinner could be 2,000 calories
No indigestion issues or fat storage noticed
But also no massive energy boost
Didn't work for him, but great if it works for others
Key: unlock what works and stick with it
[02:40:30 - 02:45:15] Workout Philosophy & Routine
Started following magazine routines (Men's Health)
Now creates own routines, switches every 2-3 months
Doesn't require massive changes - minor tweaks work
Change rep ranges, grips, barbell to dumbbell
Keep body in confusion to force adaptation
Body is incredibly efficient - must trick it to change
If doing same thing repeatedly, body builds just enough muscle to sustain
Confusion forces body to build more muscle to survive
[02:45:15 - 02:48:30] Rapid Fire: What He Knows Now at 43
Wish he knew at 35: It's okay to still be single
Midwest pressure: married by 25 or something's wrong
At 35: no marriage, no house, no kids - "what went wrong?"
Now 43: still no kids, never married, has house (doesn't live in it)
Everyone's timing is different
No universal timeline despite what society tells us
[02:48:30 - 02:55:45] The Hardest Loss: His Dog
Put dog down Christmas morning last year
Only dog that was truly "his dog"
His life companion as someone never married
Cried in car for 45 minutes
Lost dad earlier same year
Cried more for dog than dad (felt guilty about this)
Research: love with dogs accesses different part of brain
Dogs provide truly unconditional love
Over a year later, still gets emotional
Corgi in coffee shop triggered him recently
First time experiencing real grief at 42
[02:55:45 - 02:59:00] Processing Grief
Lost two very important beings in same year
Time helps, but grief isn't linear
Focus on positive memories
It's okay to cry in public
Broke down on StairMaster when Eric Clapton's "My Father's Eyes" played
Dad's favorite musician
Didn't get embarrassed, just let it happen
Found it cleansing
[02:59:00 - 03:01:30] Book Recommendation
The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein
Parents introduced it at age 7-8
Story of tree's relationship with kid as he grows
Tree gives everything: branches, fruit, trunk
Ends as just a stump
Kid returns as old man needing place to sit
Tree offers the stump
Lesson: no matter how much you give, there's always something more you can give
Green cover with bright red apple
[03:01:30 - 03:04:45] Current Favorite Show
Landman (Paramount+) starring Billy Bob Thornton
From Taylor Sheridan (creator of Yellowstone)
Reminds him of Friday Night Lights (favorite formative show)
Focuses on average everyday American life
Not sensationalized with violence/drugs/sex
Well-written character relationships
Moments remind him of his family and siblings
Less about overarching story, more about characters
[03:04:45 - 03:12:00] Career Advice: Three Key Principles
1. Trust Your Direct Manager
Most important factor when choosing a job
Manager holds many cards for your success
Will they have your best interest at heart?
Will they fight for you with upper management?
Or are they using you as means to their advancement?
Bad managers climb ladder on backs of others
More important than compensation (all else equal)
You're working to make some billionaire richer anyway
2. It's Okay Not to Love Your Job
Don't need to wake up excited every morning
Society says quit if you don't love it
Not everyone needs to be passionate about their work
Some people just "get to 5 PM"
But still give it your all, even if you don't love it
Not loving your job doesn't mean quit tomorrow
Commit to giving your best every single day
3. Don't Get Caught Up in Office Politics
Mind-numbing and exhausting
Will exist in most places (fact of life in American capitalism)
Don't let your career define who you are
US obsession: "What do you do?" is first question to strangers
Travel abroad: people rarely ask about your job
For Dan: doesn't want to be known as "a recruiter"
But if career defines you, that's also fine - personal choice
[03:12:00 - 03:15:30] Travel Wisdom: Happiness with Less
Most life lessons from travel: seeing happiness with so little
Story from Zimbabwe safari
Guide Claude: never left his village beyond 20 miles
Been to 3 countries only because borders merge in Victoria Falls
Never on plane or train
Couldn't be happier
"Best office in the world"
Lesson: happiest people often have very few material belongings
What matters: being around people they care about, simplicity of life
US materialism vs. global perspective
[03:15:30 - 03:17:00] Closing Thoughts
Importance of preparation in tough job market
Stand out by being 10x more prepared
Do reflection on what's important to you
Over-prepare for every situation
Deep gratitude for the conversation